Sabriya Dobbins - Knowing When to Stop in the Name of Mental Health

Sabriya Dobbins

[00:00:00] Wendy Manganaro: Hi everyone. My name's Wendy Manganaro and I am the Host of the Wellness and Wealth podcast. I'm so happy to have you find us. And if you could take a moment and hit that subscribe button, I'd really appreciate it. This is the podcast where we believe when you show up better for yourself as a woman business owner, you show up better for your business. 

So sit back, relax. And learn from the practical to the woo-hoo, how to best take care of you. Have a great day. Stay blessed. And leave a review when you're done listening to the show, thanks so much. 

Today we have another great guest, Sabriya Dobbins-Charles.

Congratulations. She recently got married, so congratulations on that.

I'm gonna read her bio. We're gonna have a great show today. As always, I'm really excited about it. Sabriya Dobbins, Award winning founder of Project Passport and life discovery expert. Graduated from North Carolina state University with a dual bachelor's in animal science and social work. She runs Project Passport, which is a proactive wellness service company designed with the goal of providing preventive mental wellness tools and solutions to companies, organizations, and individuals.

After experienced severe anxiety and panic attacks, she realized there needed to be a sacred space to help people with the little things before they become things that result in breakdowns.. Sabriya is the author of the Wellness blog, Living Life Full Force, and the book, The Purpose Doesn't Care What's In your Bank Account.

[00:01:32] Wendy: She has certifications in positive psychology, cognitive behavioral techniques, coaching, neurolinguistics practitioner, practitioner-style coaching, and many other disciplines. As a master life coach and master's in clinical mental health counseling candidate, she innovated a unique style of serving clients

using experimental experiential, actionable, and engaging mental wellness activities that are easy to duplicate and use outside of retreats or sessions. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you're also writing another book?

[00:02:01] Sabriya Dodson: I think when I had talked to you earlier, I was finishing up everything, getting it finalized.

So the book Purpose doesn't Care What's In Your Bank Account. It's finally here, so it's finalized. 

[00:02:10] Wendy Manganaro: And I first read the first couple of chapters, so I'm very happy for you that it's a fun and it's what you've gone through and what we'll talk about.

 I saw the copy of it, the editorial one of it. Very exciting. So welcome to the show. We had a great conversation when we did the pre podcast interview, so this is gonna be great fun. So welcome. 

[00:02:31] Sabriya Dodson: Thank you for having me.

[00:02:32] Wendy: Thank you. And we have other things that were slightly in common. We just both recently moved. She's got a gorgeous background. I'm working mine. We're gonna talk about today, a little bit of a hustle culture, verse being a little bit more mindful, in your work life.

So first I want to ask you though, what is your definition of a hustle culture? Because it's everywhere.

[00:02:57] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, I mean, we're living it. Let's look at what happened with the pandemic, for example. People started to give vaccines, PE things started to clear up. Of course, we still have covid, we're still in a pandemic, but everybody tried to go back to business as usual, literally, we didn't have our mental health being attacked through all the chaos, being stuck home for months. All the things that happen. Hustle culture is literally what we are living right now by going to business as usual, not taking the time for our wellbeing, and really going for the next thing over and over where it's almost like you're in this loop this hamster wheel where there's almost no end in sight.

And it's this idea of ignore how you feel and do what you have to do, or what we perceive we have to or should do. That's how I define it. 

[00:03:41] Wendy Manganaro: And that's interesting because as somebody who works in marketing it's everywhere on social media this whole grind, hustle, Keep moving, don't stop.

Comparison type of universe that lives on places like Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and anywhere, even Pinterest. And I feel sometimes if you follow people who are in the hustle mindset it doesn't leave any openings. You can follow two camps.

[00:04:12] Wendy: You can follow the hustle mindset or you can follow the mindful mindset . And it's like those two don't always seem to meet in the middle. It's extreme on either side. 

[00:04:25] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, so it's this idea of, we're either way too lax or we're not reaching goals and getting things done, or we're pushing over and over to the point that we're hitting our breaking points.

When I think about society and this hustle culture, you're thinking about all these gurus that are out here right now and they're saying, grind and do this, and this will result in all these things. But, we're also looking at what's going on with the mental health right now.

So with my specialty and the work that I do in mental health, people are forgetting the fact. We are going through a collective trauma. This pandemic has changed how we do life fundamentally. It's really forced us all to slow down and step back and to say, what's important for us? What do we value?

Why are we doing what we do? And I think about, even recently with, Chest the pageant, the woman who did pageants, or even recently Naomi Judd, right? All these people who were hustlers, they were the most, the overachievers of our day. Yet they were struggling silently. Through this process, and there's so many names that I didn't even mention that have been going through this, so it's this idea that

hustle culture is truly something that is detrimental to us. And I'm a really big proponent of not working hard because yes, there are some cultures that say everything is just we just go. But it's also the idea that when we are thinking about hustle culture, we're thinking about the fact that we are not taking the time to breathe, not taking the time to think, what do I need right now That's outside of worldly accomplishments.

Cuz sometimes we're so caught up. I got this award, I did this performance, I have this interview. I got on this publication. But people don't realize we all come to learn that's not fulfilling. True Fulfillment is being able to have love with your family, having connection, being able to have support.

True fulfillment is being able to take care of your body. Being happy with your body, being able to be spiritually in a good place. So I think that the biggest issue of society right now is that we have to reprogram what we consider wellbeing. Because wellbeing is so much more than financial success that we see.

[00:06:17] Wendy Manganaro: I think that you said something key we're not taking a step back for our mental health and I think you're right. Part of it I think is people were like, Oh my gosh, the pandemic's over. I want some freedom.

[00:06:27] Wendy: I wanna be able to see people and do things. And not realizing that there's a whole subculture of people who are still afraid to go out. There's still subculture and even I've heard from my friends places don't have it back together yet.

And I'm like, Hold up we literally took a step back and had to reevaluate how we did things online for two years. And now you want everybody to go back in a week and remember what they did and go back into this full piece and be like I don't understand why you're not doing this right yet. And I don't think there is a fairness because we're not allowing people to

have a breath of to examine where they're out with it, , and then go, You have to go back to work or and hence why I think we have so many entrepreneurs right now. 

[00:07:11] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah. 

[00:07:12] Wendy: We're like, I'm not doing that. 

[00:07:14] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, I agree. I think, corporations are in for a this is just the beginning. I think we are on a domino effect of what the future's gonna be for the workplace.

People are done doing work where their needs are not considered outside of financials. Now, I don't get you wrong. Companies definitely need to pay fair wages, pay good wages, but people now, especially the Gen Z, the newer generations, Are saying no, If you are not gonna give me flexibility, if you're not gonna give me benefits that support my wellbeing, if you're not gonna care about me beyond my role and my contribution to the workplace, then I don't want to be here.

And so I believe that people are being able to recreate what it means to have a culture of wellbeing through creating their own version of that, through their own organizations, through their own, side hustles, freelancing. Freelancing has become really big now. . like people are saying, I'm gonna work.

Three months really hard, get it done and then take two months off work for another four months, take a month off. And that's becoming the future of how people are working. And I think that this is the start to the domino effect that's gonna come from Covid. We think that the workforce is changing now.

Oh, just wait to the next few years. It's going to be changing even more because people are waking up every single day saying, My mental health is crucial. It's important, 

[00:08:24] Wendy Manganaro: So you have those who come out and they say, Yeah, I need mental health.

Health. I didn't realize. And there's still this subculture of that's not okay. Outta curiosity and then I'll have other questions for you, but how do you fight that, especially on social media? Again, I spend a lot of time on there. I've watched it over the years.

I've seen what it does to people and in your experience, what's the best way to ignore that? Because if you're trying to make a change in a shift to say I'm okay with not having your approval, essentially, , is it really what we're saying is No, my mental health is more important.

There's still this undertone of, again, cuz the two worlds don't collide of we don't wanna break the society's norms. So how do you do that, especially in a culture that's so lived online right now and be okay with going against the hustle or going against what other people's expectations.

[00:09:17] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, so I think a lot of it is going to be taking the time to first figure out what do you value, what's most important to you? And why are these things so important to you? If you value family, why is family important to you? If you value peace, why is peace important to you? And I want people to think about, what would your life look like if you were not honoring these values, what price are you willing to pay?

And if you're willing to pay the price of listening to what people say you should do and how you should show up in the world and how you should function, and if that is enough to give up peace for you. If that's enough to give up family time with you, that's fine. But at the end of the day, it's always, we all have a price to pay as people.

Everything. Everything has a price. So if you choose to take more time for your family in peace, maybe you don't make as much cuz maybe you're working less hours, maybe you're not taking a higher level position, because you know that you would get paid less, but you also would lose your time. So at the end of the day, we have to decide what are we willing to sacrifice?

What is most important to us, and is it really a sacrifice? If you're giving up something that, maybe you do give up money, but if money is still not as important as time with your family, then at that point it's honoring your values. So I think if you can identify your values, step into those values and determine what price you're willing to pay, and if you're willing to give up those values for the sake of other people

that is the decision to be made. And I think every single one of us are being forced every day to re-look at what matters to us. Because even with this idea of mortality, I don't think any of us have thought about mortality to the point and the level that we have today. I can't say that I have ever thought about, I've thought about dying, but to think about people are dying.

Of any age from a virus that we still are learning a lot about from other things, from other effects of the virus, the depression, the suicide, the numbers of high profile suicides and the ones that are not even reported are astounding. So it's this idea of if we are gonna live, the least we could do is live a life that is true to us and authentic to us because at this point it's come to show us that none of this is promised.

 I feel like before the pandemic we're going through life, nobody thinks they're gonna die, right? I We, if we woke up one day, no one thinks about those things. But the pandemic has awakened us to say, Wow, this can happen to any of us. Our emotions, our mental health can be affected where we don't wanna, we go through a depressive state or I could get covid, or I could get this sickness and my life will be over.

Will it be worth living? Will the life I lived be reflective of who I wanted it, who I wanna be? Because you're only get to do this thing once. And so that's what I encourage people to think about. 

[00:11:44] Wendy Manganaro: So I'm curious to know how you started for your own journey. And I know your book's a little bit about this, but your own journey into, Whoa, this has got to stop this mindset that I'm in.

I'm burning myself out. 

[00:11:58] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, so when I think back to my younger self all the way back to high school, I was this person that was so overachiever focused. I I cried for goodness sakes in second grade when I got my first B, for goodness sake.

Like I was that kid that like I couldn't, I got a B in cursive. I remember to this day, it was one point from an A, it was bad. I was so obsessed with my worth being defined by how I performed in school and. When I got to college, I thought I'd free myself from this. I'm graduating top of my class in high school, and I carry that same mentality into college, to the point where it.

It pretty much broke me. The nervous breakdowns were unbearable. There were times that it took everything in my life to get out of bed, to function, to go to class. There were times that I felt so sick I could throw up before I went to class, especially classes that I was struggling in because I felt my worth was built into this class.

If I did not do well, if I did not get an A, if I did not contribute to this gpa, then what am I worth? This lasted for all my years of college. One day when I, it was get to the point where it was time to graduate, It was, in my junior, senior year, I was like, Oh my gosh, I don't wanna be a veterinarian.

I had done this whole track for animal science and literally, luckily I double majored in social work, but I had the animal science degree, thought I wanted to go to vet school, busted my butt, gave up my weekends, working in these vet jobs, realized I didn't want it. That was the first devastating blow for me where I was like

oh my gosh, I'm a failure. So I get to the point where it's time to graduate. I end up working in real estate, so I change, make a total 180, and I'm doing really good financially. I'm killing it fresh outta college, making banging money. More than my parents making a year. I was killing

1. I was miserable. I was working constantly. Never got to spend time with my fiance. I was always on my phone. I didn't have a sense of harmony about my life. So then I changed careers again thinking I'd be okay. Okay let me go to higher ed. It sounds cool. I wanna help people.

I like teach. Worked in higher ed, got the position miserable. I finally hit to the breaking point where I was like, this is crazy. I'm this accomplished person, yet I am the most unhappy person. I don't get it. What am I doing wrong? So I ended up making the decision to start Project Passport. I, my fiance got a job in Belize.

We lived out there briefly, and during that time I worked on my business. And I worked remotely for the higher ed job. I ended up leaving the higher ed job and during that time, I built this organization cuz I thought about what do people like me, like, how are they feeling? I know I'm not the only one going through this.

And so through that experience, I decided to create a space where people could face their problems, they could face themselves, figure out what matters to them. Figure out what they need to live a life of authenticity. So I guess through healing others, I was able to heal myself. And I have found my space of true peace.

And I tell people any day now, if it means making a hundred million dollars and making a million dollars and I get to spend time with my family, I get to have happiness, joy, I get to take time off. I will take the million dollars any day. Anybody would take a million dollars any day, but still big worse is the a hundred.

At the end of the day, I know what I need for my life. I know what makes me happy. I know what brings me peace. And I think that if people can find that out for themselves, they will find true joy. And now that's why I look at, I look back at mortality. I can say I live the life that I'm proud of.

[00:15:11] Wendy: There's a couple of things that I definitely relate to there. One is that I would literally was graduating school. I had one or two classes left. And I was testing for different police academies in New Jersey, and I worked at a place called Covenant House.

Shout out to them, they are phenomenal organization and they help 18 to 21 year olds who are homeless to this day. Hands down as far as jobs go. Favorite job I've ever had in my life. Favorite job. I worked the overnight shift and I was sitting there, about to graduate and I'm getting interviews, and I passed all the tests and I'm like, I don't wanna do this.

I had this epiphany that if I went into a uniform, I couldn't help before the problem started. And that wasn't who I was. I wanted to be able to help before they got there, not after they got there. And and so I was like, What are you do, What are you doing?

Which is so funny now cuz I'm in marketing, but it was that realization that I was better off helping people and I still do by what I do. But my point of that is It was through by me helping others

I got more out of it than, and I was happier than this thought of what I had to do. And the people around me, I don't know if you went through this, were like, Are you out of your mind? Do you know you're gonna lose salary? And you're gonna work for non-profits and make no money.

[00:16:36] Sabriya Dodson: I love that you say that because oftentimes people put their fears onto you, like it's their fear. That's the whole point. Like it's not your fear to be had, it's their fear to be had. It's something that they wouldn't do, but it's not something you wouldn't do. So I love that you are able to still do. What you needed for your peace, because everybody has a different definition of what it means to find wholeness and peace and truth in their lives. And I think that if people would stop placing their version of truth and their version of wholeness on others, we could truly walk in our gifts and we could truly make this world better.

I believe that we are better as people. When we walk in our gifts, when we walk in what we're meant to be, we're walk in who we are meant to be. And I think a lot of people are not able to walk in that. And that's why we see a lot of unhappy people in the world right now. I truly 

believe that.

[00:17:20] Wendy: There's a lot of truth to that cuz again, when I started my company 13 years ago when I walked away from nonprofit because nonprofit I was working for at the time wasn't matching what they were saying. So I needed to come home for my son.

And I remember meeting with this woman and she's You understand this Facebook thing? Nobody else does. And I really did. I had this like gift to understanding the tech behind it and making it work. And my friends. But what happens when Facebook goes away? There was so much fear again, in this, I'm gonna do something different cuz I'm gonna start something on my own. I'm not gonna work for somebody else anymore. I wanna raise my son. I can't do it eight hours away from him. That's just not my choice in my life right now. And it's an interesting thing to not go with the norm, and that's why I was asking you about the social media, because we see it a lot on social media is to say, this isn't our norm.

This isn't what works for my family. I don't know if you listened to Lisa Nichols. Yeah. I love Lisa Nichols. But she talks about that and I actually got to see her in person right before I started my own company. And and she talks about people told her she'd never speak, She was never should write.

And so she went into accounting, and accounting was killing her mentally and spiritually. And physically and that's what happens is that we start to do what other people think as opposed to what we're meant to do for ourselves. And the other side of that is, is when you're always listening to somebody else, you don't have to take the onus of.

Your own joy. 

[00:18:44] Sabriya Dodson: Exactly. 

Exactly. And it's in a way, sometimes we don't wanna take responsibility of our joy. It's a way to, to give up accountability for ourselves, because we could say they said I should do this, and so that's why I did it. So if something goes wrong, I get to blame this person. But if you do things that truly are honoring who you are and represent who you want, what you want.

Then you gotta take accountability. If it doesn't go well, you gotta look at yourself and say, What happened here? And I think that it's so much easier. Nobody wants to take ownership of their lives with themselves. Not nobody, I know people do, but the average person does not want to.

And it's a natural thing. It's humans. Why would we do something that hurts? Why would we do something that's discomfort the natural human in us the natural kind of protector creature of us does things that says, Let me find comfort because I need comfort. Let me go back to that.

Even through therapy we have historical coping techniques that are just programmed in our dna. And so I'm constantly helping clients and helping them understand that we have to reprogram these techniques because they no longer apply with who we are today with our circumstance today.

And so that's what I'm really big about is just helping people understand that we have to take accountability for our joy because no one else is gonna understand what joy means for us, like us. And another thing with this idea of normal I believe we should throw away the word normal away to be all together because there is no such thing as normal.

Normal is whatever you define normal to be. And I think that would make a difference for a lot of people. And I think people would not feel so bad about themselves. Many people feel like they're weird or they're odd but what's odd? What's weird? It's whatever you define it to be.

So allowing people to step into what that means for them and what their truth is. And it's funny how hustle culture, it's coming down to truth, but it it's not about this no if you wanna wake up at 6:00 AM great. If you wanna start your day at four o'clock in the morning to meditate for three hours, great.

But is that who you are? Does that represent you? Does that represent your peace? Does that bring you joy? If you're doing this for you, great. Nothing to say to that. But if it's because you feel like you should do it or because other people are doing it, then you wanna go back and ask yourself, am I truly walking in authenticity with who 

I am?

[00:20:45] Wendy: That brings me to this next question, what is the warning signs? Cuz I think as female entrepreneurs, we do well. We get excited, we start stuff and it's all go. Even for me, I started this business, so I could spend more time with my son and then all of a sudden I was in the business and I was running crazy and I was like, Whoa, I don't see my kid.

 And I think all entrepreneurs go through these ebbs and flows of this, but if you're out there and you're working and you're part of this hustle code, like how do you recognize when it's burnt out? What are those warning signs that you start to go I don't know what the problem is.

Because you're not necessarily bringing in any more money, you're just doing. And you lose your focus of what you're doing, even with sometimes following your passion.

[00:21:30] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah. So some of the signs are am I becoming robotic? Is life living near? Am I living it? It's to ask yourself, are you an autopilot?. That's a really big thing. Sometimes when we start to we start to dissociate from our lives, we dissociate from ourselves. That's a really big indicator that, hey, something's not right, and then we have this idea of, am I in a place where I'm feeling apathetic?

Apathy is a really big indicator when you start to feel apathy. It's really going to a point of a lack of feeling. It's lack of connection to yourself, to what's happening in your life. So that's another one that's a crucial one to look at. It's also this idea of feeling irritable. If you're feeling to a point where you are irritated by little things that you would not typically get irritated about, but all of a sudden you're just mad at the world, or, your kid says one thing or someone says that you don't.

Sometimes we think it's them, but no, it's you, baby. It might be you. And you gotta own that and be aware of that. So when you start losing your character, when you start doing things outta your character, you're probably hitting that space. And so that's when you need to take a step back. And I am a huge promoter and a huge advocate for hiatus.

I write about that in my book. This idea that a hiatus is a crucial thing to take. I've taken multiple hiatus in my career. It's hard to do, especially when you run your own business. But they're possible. You have to want it. If you have a team, great, they can help carry things while you're gone, but you have to want it.

And a hiatus can be one of the most healthy things you do, whether you take a week off or three days off. But it's just time to regroup, journal, breathe, meditate, think, pray. Whatever that looks like, figure out what are you doing, Who are you doing it for? Why are you doing it, and where do you 

go from here? 

[00:23:03] Wendy: I love that.

And that actually brings me up to the last question, what is that first step to say, Okay, now that I'm in this cycle, how do I break it?

Because a lot of us, it is a cycle. And we're used to doing it so we keep doing it and we're like, it still doesn't work. And then we go, maybe I'll try it differently, but we're still doing the same thing. 

[00:23:23] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah. You know it's funny, people are probably oftentimes shocked when I tell clients this.

This is for my coaching and my therapy clients alike. I tell them, You need to break. And I know it sounds like crazy cuz people are like, Break, why would you wanna break me? You're supposed to be helping rebuild. But honestly speaking, if a person has not gotten to the point where they're ready to break and not have it, I'm not saying it has to be a whole nervous breakdown or psychotic break.

Absolutely not, but you need to break. You need to get to a point where you're like, I cannot and I will not do this anymore. Because I think that's the problem with people is we get addicted to chaos. We get addicted to this idea of well, at least I know if I'm feeling bad, I know like at least I can predict it.

It's this idea that we gotta do life different. When you break, you realize I can't show up the way I'm showing up in life right now. I can't show up this way no more. It's not gonna work. So I think the first step is to truly hit a breaking point where you are determined to make change. Because if you're like, Oh, this is not idea, I'm a little frustrated with it, and or maybe you feel a little indifferent that it means nothing.

Real change happens when you hit that breaking point. And then for me, that's what it was. Even through Project Passport, there were times where I was like, This business is not running how I want it, it to this is, hold on. Whoa. We go back to the drawing board. And then finally I got to the point where I said, I'm not gonna lead these type of sessions anymore that I'm offering or whatever.

I'm not gonna do this. I'm just not gonna do it. It's not working for me. It's not helping me. And that was a break point for me. And the great thing is it opened a door for me to lead sessions in a completely different way. I work on a larger scale with organizations. It completely changed.

But had I not allowed myself to break and close that door, I would've still kept on pedaling doing something that was not honoring what I wanted in business and not aligned with who I was. And so first step is to get to a point where you can break and say, I need to change. And then I would say the next part is being able to take that action.

So to say, Okay, now that I'm hitting my breaking point for change, what needs to happen? What is it that I want? What do I need? What I need to happen? So that's, those are those like the first things I would say to start this entire process. And then once you get there, you can start to trust yourself and your intuition and know where to 

go next.

[00:25:29] Wendy: Yeah. That's really good. I was thinking of a phrase I've heard in the past of when you're sick and tired, being sick and tired, you'll change. There, you'll Yeah. You're like, Oh yeah, no, I'm 

done. 

[00:25:39] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah. Cause everybody's ready to go for change until it's time to change. And so you gotta be ready.

You know it. I'm always really thoughtful when I first work with my clients. I'm like, are they really ready to change? Because we can sit here for months and weeks and sit here and have these same conversations. Because people who are ready to change, they're at a point where they're like, I can't, It's not gonna happen.

No more. That's a big 

key.

[00:25:59] Wendy: The best thing is when you hit a brick wall. 

[00:26:02] Sabriya Dodson: Yeah, really. 

Brick walls are good. Brick walls are good 

for you. 

[00:26:05] Wendy: They're good for you. I wanna thank you so much for coming on the show today. It has been so much fun. I know you have an offer for our audience, so I want for you to share how people can get in touch with you.

Tell 'em about the book, tell 'em about your offer. This is your time. 

[00:26:20] Sabriya Dodson: Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on here, Wendy. It was I'm so in love with this topic and I love talking about it. So my book Purpose doesn't care What's in your Bank account. You can get it on my website at sabriyadobbins.com if you wanna sign copy or you can check Amazon, all your book retailer sources and access it as well.

And then also the free offer. Yes. So we created this amazing guide that really provides people tools on how to be well It's, It is a wellness guide, an adventure. I like to call it, so if you want to be able to access it, you can just go to the Project Passport website and you'll go to our wellness store and then you'll go ahead and It's actually listed, it has a price on there, which you'll do is when you go to checkout type in p with all caps, and I'm sure she'll have it in the show notes for you to be able to access that as well.

And you can also contact us across all of our social medias at Project Passport, llc, we're super responsive. I, I love to talk with my clients. I love to support them. I'm a real person. I'm not one of those CEOs that are like a blind face that you don't know. And so that's the best way. And again, thank you so much for having me.

[00:27:20] Wendy Manganaro: Thank you. And to all my listeners 

If you loved what you heard today. Please. Subscribe. So you can listen to all upcoming shows. And also if you love Sabriya and what she had to say leave us a review.

[00:27:39] Wendy Manganaro: I wish you a wonderful day. Until next time.