Awakening Your Wealth Consciousness with Catherine Demonte

Wendy Manganaro: 0:00

Hi everyone. My name's Wendy Manganaro and I am the Host of the Wellness and Wealth podcast. I'm so happy to have you find us. And if you could take a moment and hit that subscribe button, I'd really appreciate it. This is the podcast where we believe when you show up better for yourself as a woman business owner, you show up better for your business. So sit back, relax. And learn from the practical to the woo-hoo, how to best take care of you. Have a great day. Stay blessed.

Wendy: 0:33

Hey everyone. It's Wendy Manganaro from the Wellness and Wealth podcast. I'm excited to be bringing you another episode. And today we have Catherine Demonte joining us and we're gonna be talking about wealth consciousness and, money mindset, and the things that either stop us or really catapult us into this wealth consciousness. I'm really excited about this conversation because I know I've done a lot of work in this area and I always think there's always more work I can do. I think most women who understand wealth conciousness as entrepreneurs can see a difference in how they run their business and themselves, when they start to go into these different type of money, mindset ideologies. So I'm gonna read to Catherine's bio and then we'll get started. Catherine is a licensed marriage, family and child therapist who has provided integrative therapy for 30 years. She's the author of a book on manifestation called Beep Beep, Get Out Of My Way, Seven Tools For Powerful Creation and Living Your Unstoppable Life. And the founder of abundance circle groups created to help participants call in what they have been longing to attract in their life. Through this work she's helped scores of women and men live their fullest most robust and most authentic selves. So welcome, Catherine. Thanks for joining me today.

Catherine Demonte: 1:49

You're very welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Wendy. Glad to be here.

Wendy: 1:53

Yeah, I'm really excited. And Catherine was one of the first people that I actually talked about starting this idea of a podcast for women in business, who really need a reminder, like even me, myself, that if we put ourselves first mentally, spiritually, and physically, then we run our businesses better. And a lot of this has to do with mindset though. So I do love the name of your book. I think it's so cute. Beep beep get outta your way. I think that's great. So, how did you come up with this?

Catherine Demonte: 2:20

Hmm. That's a great question. In my private practice I noticed that people seemed to come in because one particular thing was missing in their life that they were really long to have, and that was the, their angst and their depression came around the fact that they didn't have a certain thing. So in my practice, I gave a few tools that seemed to help them around mindset and attraction that pulled the thing in and their life changed. So when I noticed that with clients, I thought a group would be even more powerful and that people could then attract the thing they wanted. And when they did, I noticed they seemed unstoppable in life. And that's how I got the subtitle. And I just felt like these tools are very powerful. And as I said, these mostly women, there are a few men in the groups, but the abundance circles that came out of my practice nine outta 10 of the people in each circle, literally got the thing in that time, whether it was a partner or more financial flow. Or more peace, whatever it was for them, they literally attracted it and they'd been waiting years for it. And when they had it, they were so on fire that they were unstoppable. And they used the tools for everything else after that,

Wendy: 3:27

I love that. And isn't that the truth? Once you learn these manifestation tools even if it's one area you're like, Hey, wait a second. This might work everywhere. I can use it in this area of my life. It's working wonderfully and it's like a light bulb when they realize they can use it in other areas of their life.

Catherine Demonte: 3:42

Absolutely. It's a tool. That's one size fits all the universe. Doesn't mind what it is we ask for. We put our own blocks on them, as you mentioned, due to things like limiting self talk or, faulty beliefs. So maybe we think we got lucky when I use these tools and attracted a partner, but I don't think it would work for the money that's always been tight or vice versa. But you're so right. It's just a formula. And when you know it, everything can flow, whatever it is that you're wanting at that time.

Wendy: 4:09

Yeah. And that's the thing is getting people to get there is like an extraordinary thing. And we've talked cuz both of us like Abraham Hicks, right?

Catherine Demonte: 4:16

Yes.

Wendy: 4:17

And if you're new in the audience and you have never heard, I highly recommend looking up Esther and Jerry Hicks. I think that's a great thing too. Just an idea of listening to some of her ideologies. It's not a fluke. It's not like coincidence. We're really putting things in a kind of a imaginary hat to later on be pulled out and I'm gonna be able to get this. I've already put everything there that I want and need. And with that idea let me ask you this. I have my own ideas on this, but I wanna hear yours. So when we're talking about entrepreneurship, there's a whole mindset out there. That's this hustle, the more I do, the more I'll get. And it's like a 24 7 type of lifestyle.

Catherine Demonte: 4:59

Mm-hmm

Wendy: 4:59

Sometimes it's this like high stress, high pressure. I've gotta be on at all times with this puzzle.

Catherine Demonte: 5:05

Yeah.

Wendy: 5:06

And so do you think that in there at all, that there could be some mindfulness or wealth consciousness, or do you think that mindset takes away from it?.

Catherine Demonte: 5:15

That's such a good point. This myth we've been told that you have to work really hard for all of your life, all your adult life in order to be successful goes against what I believe to be the flow of abundance. I absolutely believe it can come in with grace and ease and it doesn't have to be so hard. We can work less and have more come in. If we know the mindset, I think of that as being very masculine and very much about taking, like working hard and taking. Versus more in the feminine for both men and women and flowing and learning to receive. So watching our mindset around what we've heard our parents say about working hard, or maybe we grew up hearing money, doesn't grow on trees or, things like that, that you have to work really hard in order. For it to come in, but that I think ignores all the other bodies we have, like they're not just machines working to pull in money. We also have an emotional, mental, and physical body that needs tending to, so if we can make more and less time and tend to those life flows much better, obviously. Watching, for example, our stories that our parents, that are inherited stories, for example, would be a great place to start.

Wendy: 6:28

So what we've grew up with or what we've been told. What other things, when it comes to this hustle mindset, do you think we can sit there and go, okay. Maybe that doesn't make sense. How do you start almost deprogramming yourself? What's some of the first steps that you go okay. So if hustle doesn't work, because I think there's a fear out there of what, what it would look like. If I don't do that.

Catherine Demonte: 6:49

You're right. There's still a fear of letting go of it since it's been so programmed. So the first step would be recognizing that that is exactly what it is. I've learned this and I can unlearn it. I can change the money story just cuz I saw my parents doing that and their parents doesn't mean it's true or doesn't mean that it's my story. Even if it were true. It's not my story. I can have it come in with grace and. And one of the simplest ways to shift the story is to simply think about money as energy. Like we do love. If we thought of money, like we do love, we never think about having to work hard to be in a relationship or to attract a perfect person. That would be so repelling. It would look so needy. If we were on a first date and we're like, I hope you're the one I've gotta, I've gotta be on top of it. I hope everything looks perfect. I hope my answers are perfect to your questions. I hope I look perfect. It would be so off putting. But if we allowed love to flow in, or when we allow flow to come in and we also give love, then more flows to us. We need to have that same kind of relationship with money that I receive it easily. I give it easily. I don't hoard it. I don't hold onto it when it does come. I expect it to come. Just like I expect love to be in my life. I've never questioned that. And I bet nobody listening has ever thought. I wonder if I'm gonna be loved in life. I wonder if anybody will love me. I wonder if my children love me. I wonder if my partner loves me, my teachers, we just assume that people do cuz we're good people. We can do the same with money. It just, and I think that's one of the first steps is just thinking of it that way and not hoarding it to, there was a woman in one of my abundant circles for whom money was tight and that was the thing she wanted to attract. So she kept a $100 bill in her wallet that she didn't spend. So that every time she opened it, Because she kept forgetting it was there. She'd go. Oh my gosh, I have a hundred dollars bill in there. I'm so rich. So every time she said I'm so rich, she was actually doing an affirmation cuz I AM statements are so powerful. And that's another tool I AM statements, instead of saying, for example, if somebody calls and invites us to something, but money's tight we do an, we actually create, a deeper entrenchment of the story if we say, oh, I wish I could, but I can't. I'm really broke right now. I am broke. Now just declared that to the world and furthers. That's true about us or that we believe it's true. So the universe goes, oh, okay. So you're broke. We'll give you more of that. But let's say instead, we said, oh, I'd love to, but I'm not gonna be able to right now, but thank you. Maybe next time we don't have to bring up that we don't have enough. So we need to watch that as well. We're making declarations all the time. When we say I'm broke. I never have enough money. That's you're creating that story continuing it if you use that language.

Wendy: 9:32

So it's really funny that you say that and you're going to get a kick out of this story. So I have started to tell people about, the idea of manifestation and don't say things like I'm broke. What you say is what you're getting, right? So be careful. And there was a while. That I was going, oh, I can't tell them that. I did not say I'm broke. Cuz I'm saying I'm broke. I got so into it. I was like, oh my goodness. It was funny. I wanted to back up and ask you one question. So what is your definition for wealth consciousness? Cuz I think people are familiar with the money mindset idea and they don't know if there's a difference between wealth consciousness and money mindset. What would you describe that as?

Catherine Demonte: 10:12

I would describe wealth consciousness as our awareness, our deep understanding of the way money flows and our relationship to it. What our thoughts are around it, what we've inherited, because that comes into our conscious mind when we hear our parents arguing, for example, about money and spending. So to be aware of money. And then what we say about it is what I would call wealth consciousness and having a healthy relationship with it is part of wealth consciousness.

Wendy: 10:40

And I would assume that for each person, the idea of wealth is different, right? I think This ideology out there, it goes with the hustle. Ideology is everybody's pushing for six figures, which is great. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying anything wrong with that. That's wonderful. But can we talk about that? Maybe that's not what everybody's goals is in wealth consciousness like that doesn't have to be the standard for everybody.

Catherine Demonte: 11:03

No, I love that. You said that it's so true. Because if it feels like the standard and that's not what we're offered, that's not what our, the job that we're in offers or, or what we're interested in. It's it would feel like failing. And it's also, to me, when I hear it, it feels and that's the only path to happiness too. Once I've reached that, then I'll be happy in all these categories. That's not true. That's a falsehood..

Wendy: 11:26

Ooh, I like that. You said this. So once I reach this, I will be happy. So that's a big part of money. Mindset. Is this idea. I'd love for you to go into more clarification that we don't have to wait for happy. And what that looks like.

Catherine Demonte: 11:40

Yes, yes. I like how, how you worded that it's really an inside job. Isn't happiness. So if I'm counting on becoming happy when, and then I fill in the blank and for some, it will be when I hit six figures, I'm postponing my happiness. How about I am already happy? I stand in a place of happiness every day, every moment. And it's really nice when these things show up that match that happiness, like money flowing or relationship. I don't need those things to be happy, but be a more, of course that's a negative, I, but what I mean, I already am. I am happy and how lovely cuz now my energy attracts the things I want.

Wendy: 12:19

So this is really good though, because if you are in a place where like you're things don't look the way you'd like it to look as we talk about being an entrepreneur and a business owner. If I really believe that we are complete people, right? There's not compartmentalizing. Because we're whole people and we bring us into every situation we go into so if you have somebody who's looking at this and going, I'm not real happy in my business life. It's not going the way I thought my relationship is now not going the way I thought, because I'm not achieving here. It really doesn't matter what parts of your life it is, how do you even spot that there's even a problem?

Catherine Demonte: 12:56

Mm mm-hmm mm-hmm yeah, that is a really, really good question. I think how we spot that there's even a problem is looking at our circumstances and noticing that I'm still in a place that doesn't feel ideal. So for me, I love this conversation because money was the place I bumped into or feeling a lack of it. Just briefly my husband's money story was that he was one of six and his mom was a stay at home mom. So his dad worked several jobs, but there wasn't enough to provide very much for six children, especially when they were in private school. So it was really stretched. So he saw his dad working, but there was never enough. And my money story is I'm a twin, but my, this was back in the days when, before ultrasound and my mom didn't know that she was carrying twins. So my sister was born first. And while she was on the table, they didn't know I was there. and then the doc, she and the nurse started, feeling her stomach and noticed there was something else. And they told the doctor who didn't believe that there was anybody else. And then they finally realized I was, so I was nine minutes later and came, but my mom made a big point, my whole life of what a surprise I was, but she didn't say it like, and you were such a pleasant surprise, but how much work it was and how hard it was and so my story was I have to work. I better earn my keep. I didn't realize that for a long time, but it was because I'm the unexpected guest. I shouldn't take up too much room and I shouldn't need too much. And that's okay. Cuz I can work. I can start babysitting in junior high school so that I can buy my own things. So my husband's money story around you have to work really hard, but there won't be enough fit my wound perfectly of that 's okay. Cause I have to work on my own anyway, you don't have to give to me. I noticed that I don't get enough just like I did at home. Cuz, I didn't earn much, I was a young girl trying to make my way in the world. So there's an expression that says his claws fit her wounds or vice versa, which I think is powerful. So my husband's story of I'm gonna be off and working, but we still won't have much money. So we won't have relationship time and we won't have. Much money and we can't go on trips and we can't do a lot of things. Cuz money is always tight. Like you, I don't wanna really put that out. But it fit mine of that's okay. My needs aren't gonna get met. I'm used to that. So the first step, I think in recognizing what we wanna change is to say, or to acknowledge. I want it to feel different than I'm feeling now, but how do I act as if it's already here? Because as long as I kept saying to myself and I did for years, it's really sad for me that my husband and I have no time together. We never go on vacations. He gets snippy about money when I ask about it. And it brings up all my childhood wounds, but how do I let money come in? Cuz I was blocked as well because if I brought it in myself, that would be contrary to my story of there's plenty. If that makes sense. Mine was, there's not gonna be enough. So I had to start acting as if there was already plenty and believing it. So that, that became part thought and part feeling. And that's the sweet spot of attraction. In my opinion is feeling it like it's already here and stating it, like it's already here. Even those circumstances were that my bills, some of my bills were late. And some of, sometimes we were in fear of losing our house because it was that tight. And yet. I had to act as if for a while. And that seemed to shift things.

Wendy: 16:23

I love that. And, that's for those out there who are going okay, but that is my situation. That's real, right? Because in the feeling of realness, it feels like you're paying attention to everything that's happening. And I think that we grown up in a culture of this is real. Like we have to see it, feel it, touch it in order to believe it.

Catherine Demonte: 16:44

Yes. Which means it has to come from the outside first. I have to get a great big paycheck that came outta the blue, and then that will solve my problems. And I'll, I'll finally know that money is here instead of feeling like I already have enough. things maybe tight. I might be behind on some bills, but that's okay. Cuz these other ones are being paid and I have a house and I have plenty of food and I turned it into gratitude for what was here and that starts shifting things. I know it sounds magical, but it is magical. It's the law of attraction. It's a true thing.

Wendy: 17:13

So that idea of gratitude though, right? Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that. So that is key, cuz I think everybody can be grateful for something it may not feel it. You may feel like you have to search for it sometimes in the moment. But I think there is something very key when we can find something we're grateful for. To start that shift. I think that's a big part of starting that shift of okay, what can I be grateful for?

Catherine Demonte: 17:37

Yes, it is an important part of creating a shift. Now Einstein said energy's everything and that's all there is to it. So when we're in a gratitude, we're in a higher vibration. Then when we're concentrating on the fact that we don't have what we think is enough, which is a lower vibration. So when we rise to a higher one, we attract more fits what we're looking for. I think it's hard to try that on when we are believing what we're seeing to be true. It will always look like this. There really isn't enough. There will never be enough that thinking really locks it in too. It creates more of that. It may take effort, but the brain doesn't know if we're trying it on or money came in and suddenly we feel better. It doesn't know if we're faking that. And I didn't feel like I was faking it, by the way, I felt I know I have to shift. This is not working. So I sort of stepped into this feels so much better. So I use the word faking it, but, it was real for me. Like actually I do have plenty to be extremely grateful for.

Wendy: 18:36

I love how you talked about you and your husband and, and I think that's fantastic. And in my story, my husband and I both come from very broken homes. And I really believe you attract where you're at. And I think at the time that I met my husband, I was the healthiest I had been. At that point I really believe that, there's something to that and we've gone through a lot and we've worked through, we've lost, everything, gained everything but it took us losing everything to realize. That we had to change the way we were thinking.

Catherine Demonte: 19:05

Wow.

Wendy: 19:06

That was the catalyst for us to go. And I started to search and see, and started to work with people to talk about this abundance things. And I'd be like, no, but you don't understand. We don't have, and they'd say, okay, but everything will work out. You're not in charge of that. My favorite thing is you're not in charge of the how.

Catherine Demonte: 19:23

Oh, Uhhuh. I love that too.

Wendy: 19:24

But I am charged of how I think and I am in charge of if I'm meditating, I'm in charge of all of those things. So anyway, my, my point of that is, is that you still will have naysayers around you, right? People in your life may be well intentioned, not out of meanness. But, what's your thoughts on when you're trying to live authentically and trying to change something and have it be real for you and still have the past negativity from other people?

Catherine Demonte: 19:51

Mm-hmm I think by simply stating I've changed my thinking on that. And personally, I don't like speaking about it that way. So let's say they say something like, but have you ever thought about? Or I'm not sure cuz remember that time when. I literally do a kind of flip of that oh, I know that happened then, but I don't see that coming. And I probably would make it light, but say something like, I don't even like bringing that kind of thing up. Cause it, it changes the way I'm trying to think about it these days. Because if I say that's how I'm trying to think. I'm hoping too, that a seed gets planted and they can fill my energy as well, that this is a nicer place to live this mindset. So it's a try it this way without. Scolding them for telling me that they didn't believe in my dreams or in my hope or in my vision. But instead they just say, you know what, I'm trying not to think of it that way anymore. I know I can see what you're trying to protect me. Thanks for that. But what really feels better is support for it. And I'm trying not to think of it that way anymore. Like I used to like that it can't work or You know that, or you're reminding me that money doesn't grow on trees or whatever it was. You just said. I try not to think that way anymore. You can do this too.

Wendy: 21:01

I like that. You can say it without your being wrong, or you're trying to bring me down as opposed to this is just where I'm at. Out of curiosity, I have found that if you start to change the way you think, those who do not like it, and it's not for them now they seem to remove themselves.

Catherine Demonte: 21:18

Yeah. They fall away. Don't they?

Wendy: 21:19

Which nobody would ever believe, but they really do because it's not fun for them anymore when you don't feel the same way. As they do.

Catherine Demonte: 21:27

I love that you said that's exactly how I phrase it in my head too, is it's not fun for them anymore. We can say the same in reverse it's not fun for me anymore either to hang around with them. And it doesn't have to be a hard line, but we find that we're doing things and they're doing things and we're not getting together as often. And then if we do and they bring it. Instead of being bothered by it. Sometimes I've used a phrase let's say they do that same thing, bringing up negative things or they're they repeat stories that are old and tiring, or try to put that on me instead of being bothered, I'll say to myself. Yeah. But Catherine, you already knew that about them so carry on.

Wendy: 22:02

I love that. And I am not one to convince you that I'm in a different and not a better than, but I'm.

Catherine Demonte: 22:09

You're in a better place. Yeah.

Wendy: 22:10

A better place, right? Like but that's not my job to convince you of that, especially if you're not ready to hear that.

Catherine Demonte: 22:16

Mm-hmm Exactly, and sometimes I believe that our being in that better place. Puts out a very different energy and a kind of light that people new people are drawn to that also live there. And then people who didn't sometimes become a little more light filled. Because there's something like a kind of all habit she's having when you're around people who have done a lot of work. They're clear, they're kind, they don't gossip. Their energy's kind, it's just as nice to be around and it changes them as well without their even knowing it in a beautiful way that had no preaching at all about how they should be.

Wendy: 22:53

I love that. So when, when we talk about wealth consciousness and not blocking the flow there, we talked about the story that we tell ourselves, right? And then we also talked about, where can we be grateful in the state of where we are so that we can really attract more. And that's the essence behind the gratitude thing is when you're grateful for what you have, suddenly it opens the world. But do you have a favorite affirmation that helps you stay in a mindfulness state or any other practical solution to just something that like really small that somebody can just start there.

Catherine Demonte: 23:27

Mm. If they were to just start there, it would be IM statements. Those are considered the two most powerful words in our language, because everything you state after that is now a declaration to the world. And I find whatever we say, I am. The world will show you that you're right. So if I can't figure out something on my computer, I try really hard to remember not to say things like oh, I'm so dumb. I can't believe, I don't know this or I'm so old. Young kids are so good at this. Just try not to put things like that out, but watch what you say after your, I am. Statements because you're, like I said, it's a declaration. So that's probably the simplest thing we can do is really be mindful. And if it's a word you or description that you would never use on somebody, you loved, you would never call them that don't put that behind you, behind yourself. Just so I'm right. I'm capable. I'm a money magnet. I'm a wonderful partner. If you're trying to attract a partner just being really aware of what comes after. I am even in small ways and the brain, the mind does not know whether we're joking or not, or being facetious or not. It literally captures them all. And then, it's like an old LP and if we keep replaying one, like I'm always sick or I'm always, I am beautiful. Capable. I'm kind. I'm so slow. Whatever it is that we say the mind is capturing it and does not know the difference between humor or being serious.

Wendy: 24:52

I love that. Especially for entrepreneurs, one of the things that I had when I was trying to get outta debt was, I pay all my debt bills on time, and I am debt free.

Catherine Demonte: 25:03

Mm.

Wendy: 25:03

And I did it as like a positive, I am debt free.

Catherine Demonte: 25:06

Mm-hmm

Wendy: 25:07

so it kept reinforcing this is the way that it was. And then the other one for my business is I get new clients on a weekly basis. I attract money daily and I actually have a really funny story is that at that time that I was learning about this they would talk to you about if you find a penny not to bypass that. And, and so I was like, oh, okay whatever. But, it was like that day, that first day that I heard that I go into this jewelry store and I find these earrings and they're made out of dimes.

Catherine Demonte: 25:38

Oh, interesting Uhhuh.

Wendy: 25:40

They were actual little dimes on the end of the earrings. And I bought that in the matching necklace and I was like, that's it. They told me to watch and here it is my sign. I'm meant to have these. And I wore them. I wore those things for months because I was like, no, no, this is my sign. There always is money around me. So it's it's one of those things where it seems like if you don't know about this, it seems like it could be. Something that doesn't really work, but yes, it did. And I started to feel better and I started to see money more around me.

Catherine Demonte: 26:10

Mm. I love that.

Wendy: 26:12

The result of really just looking for it. Yeah. I think those, I am statements. I think I completely agree to start where you're at with them.

Catherine Demonte: 26:21

Mm-hmm absolutely.

Wendy: 26:23

And then build on them

Catherine Demonte: 26:25

You can refine them. Mm-hmm absolutely.

Wendy: 26:27

This has been a lovely chat with you. Could you tell everybody how they can find you? And if you have anything you'd like to offer, this is your time. Cuz I wanna make sure that people can have more conversations, especially about your abundance circles. I think that's amazing.

Catherine Demonte: 26:41

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Sure. So again, my name is Catherine Demonte and they can find me at my website, which is just my name and on the website. It has a link to my book. As you mentioned, it's called Beep Beep Get Outta My Way, Seven Tools For Powerful Creation and Living Your Unstoppable Life. And there's also information on the abundant circles. I have both eight session abundant circles that meet. Once a week, and now I'm also doing four session ones that do two tools at a time of the seven tools. And it goes into things like shadow work, the parts of ourselves that we're unaware of that create our blocks. And people who have told me that the way I've of describe shadow makes it so much more accessible than it ever known before that, that it's not as complicated. So that makes me feel good, cuz it's a very powerful tool. So that's and the groups get so close. We're now doing them all on zoom. So people are showing up from all over and they often become good friends for life. I know that that lots of beautiful relationships have come from their both personal relationships, but also people. It's amazing how people in the groups often will be, oh, you have what I need and get together. Like a, an actor needing a photographer and the one woman's trying to become a headshot photographer and gets to practice. It seems like every group has, oh, you're just what I need. So the, I believe the right combination of people always come together for these groups and they're lovely. And they're life changing. The people have used that word around them that. Being in them has changed the, the direction of their life entirely. So that really excites me.

Wendy: 28:16

That's incredible. And, so I try to talk to all of the people who are on the podcast prior to the show. And both times we have talked, it has been lovely. You are a wealth of information as far as, Talking about manifestation and mindset and wealth consciousness. I think if you are struggling, especially if you're struggling with your, I don't know why I'm hitting this financial wall. Reach out to Catherine, start talking about these abundant circles, the IM statements, because a lot of times you don't know what that final piece is and you're so close to it. You don't see it. And it's really good to work with somebody else to just take a look right. And when you're working in a group, it makes it easier because you start to hear other people in the group and go, oh, that's what I'm doing like, and you don't even realize it. So I encourage you to reach out to Catherine and, and talk about those things so that we can get you past that, whatever that block is.

Catherine Demonte: 29:07

I so appreciate you saying that. Yes. And my psychotherapy clients also bump into places in their life where it's like, ah, I'm almost there. I can feel it or it's changed a bit, but usually it's just a little refining of the material we've already looked at. Like I'm afraid if I let go of the story, then. Or something like that or something in my shadow. And it becomes so clear to somebody else that's listening much more clear than it is for the person carrying it.

Wendy: 29:32

This has been delightful. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. My pleasure. Thank you.